Dexter demonstrates what is known in sheepdogs has having lots of "eye." Basically that means he locks onto something with a degree of seriousness that freaks people out ;-)
This is Dexter using his copious amount of eye on Piper, his favourite subject. He moves wherever he needs to, without taking his orbs offa her, to keep her in a certain range of sight.
(view it large)
If I were thinking about training him up for working stock, I would discourage this a lot more than I do. But since I'm not interested in pursuing stockdog activities (Dexter is going to replace Tweed as my agility dog) I don't worry too much about it. He is allowed to look, as long as he does not touch.
This is Dexter using his copious amount of eye on Piper, his favourite subject. He moves wherever he needs to, without taking his orbs offa her, to keep her in a certain range of sight.
(view it large)
If I were thinking about training him up for working stock, I would discourage this a lot more than I do. But since I'm not interested in pursuing stockdog activities (Dexter is going to replace Tweed as my agility dog) I don't worry too much about it. He is allowed to look, as long as he does not touch.
Very nice. It is wonderful to see a crouchy, creepy border collie.
ReplyDeleteHey! There's nothing "creepy" about the Dextinator :)
ReplyDeleteI thought eye was good in working stock...what do I know?
ReplyDeleteThat's hilarious. Our white shepherd does a certain amount of this when she gets a squirrel in her sights. I thought it was just "stalking."
ReplyDeleteDebra, it is good, but like any instinctive behavior we want to work with, the dog needs to learn to work with it rather than be controlled by it. Piper is not stock. Also, strong eyed dogs like this can become "sticky" -- they get frozen when staring, like some Pointers -- and that is not a useful working trait.
ReplyDeleteLove the pics, though. People who love Border Collies think this is beautiful and people who do not love Border Collies think it's *creepy* (pun intended).
Katharine, it IS stalking. When sheepdogs do it on stock and as part of herding (from a distance only), it is called "eye." It is derived from exactly the same predatory behavior your shepherd exhibits, but is not followed by more predation. Instead, the behavior is highly modified. Many BCs (and Kelpies) will work stock by simply staring at them, never getting close. Your shepherd would like to get close, and possibly bite or even kill the squirrel.
ReplyDeleteMost working behavior (other than pulling) is based on some careful modification of the predatory sequence of search, orient, eye (gaze), chase, grab-bite, kill-bite, dissect, consume. In many working breeds we've basically removed the last few steps.
Thanks, Nickelsmum,I had a similiar question to Debra Kay's and thought you would encourage an "eye" in a BC but your answer makes sense. But a note to the Food Lady - my agility instructor had a BC with a strong eye and had to work hard to cure the dog of wanting to watch things going on around her instead of doing her job, i.e., agility. And, returning to the purpose of this blog - loved the photos, love Dexter.
ReplyDeleteDexter doesn't have too much eye - he is fairly clappy, but he moves a lot. The reason I would discourage it on *other dogs* were I to want him for stockdog work is because I would not want him 'working' other dogs. In some cases, working other dogs too much can inhibit real movement of sheep. See, here's the thing - most of this behaviour is instinctual in border collies; Dexter came with the desire to follow movement and this amount of eye. However, he does not really think he is working Piper or making her move, he's just expressing innate behaviours. But on stock, he would USE those innate behaviours to manipulate the sheep (in no way does he manipulate Piper, who ignores him while he's doing this). Sometimes, dogs who have been allowed to do this on other dogs for too long end up mentally blurring the distinction between pretend working and actual working, and it becomes a problem on stock as the dog never makes the connection between actually moving the sheep and gets stuck back in watching-and-following mode. It's a very complicated set of behaviours.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I have seen of the siblings so far, Dexter has the most 'eye' of the lot. Nevertheless, he calls off fairly easily because I have called him off since he started doing it at 9 weeks. He is allowed to engage in the behaviour provided he stops doing it when asked. He will also stop doing it when it's his turn to chase a ball or frisbee, so it's not like he gets obsessive about only eying Piper. I'm definitely not concerned about it :)
Pretty well any dog can exhibit most of the behaviours that Dexter does, but it's overdeveloped in some herding breeds. Interestingly Tweed, who has no eye and no talent on or interest in working stock, does this to his buddy Ru and Ru only ;-) Dexter does it to Piper almost exclusively. Tweed is not "herding" Ru and Dexter is not "herding" Tweed. Piper has a strongish eye on stock, but on nothing else as she does not focus on other dogs. Lots of border collie actions get labeled herding when in fact they are just being doggish - it's just that their doggishness is more pronounced than most other breeds because it's been selectively bred for :)
Nickelsmum, thanks for the information. Grace does sometimes freeze up and keep her distance, or she'll stare at the squirrels as we pass without trying to get them, but I think that is more learned than instinctual, as I always tell her to "Leave it."
ReplyDeleteThat should have said, thanks for the information, Nickelsmum and Food Lady. :o) You both gave some good information there. I know a white shepherd and a border collie are very different, but I thought it was interesting to see the pictures, because Grace (who is my first shepherd) looks at things more intensely than I'd ever seen before! We always joke that she is trying to draw the squirrel to her with her mind.
ReplyDelete